Devlok With Devdutt Pattanaik: 3 Read online

  The story of the original sin comes from the Bible. What other stories does the Bible have?

  The Bible has two parts—the Old and the New Testament. In the Old Testament, God appears very strict, making rules and punishing people. In the New Testament, he is kinder and more forgiving. The messenger does not talk of rules, but of love, devotion and compassion, although rules are important too. A more emotional side emerges which is connected with Jesus. The New Testament has stories of Jesus—his birth, life, crucifixion in Jerusalem and resurrection. The New Testament is like a fruit, the seed of which is the Old Testament, which is a long story about Jews, starting with the original sin. The tales of human beings not following God’s rules are repeatedly told. In one, God gets angry and says that for forty days he’ll pour so much rain on earth that it’ll get flooded. There’s one sinless man Noah (called Nu in the Arabic tradition) who is asked to make a boat that will carry a pair of all living beings. The flood destroys everything. The occupants of the boat survive and, after the waters recede, form new life and a new world. In our Puranas too, there is a story about a flood where Manu carries birds, animals and the Vedas to safety. It’s the story of the Matsya avatar.

  What other stories are there in the Bible?

  There’s a story about Ibrahim, which is not in the Bible but found in biblical traditions. He would make idols of gods and goddesses from mud and stone. But once God tells him that these are false gods because there is only one God and it is formless. He is asked to destroy the idols. He does and becomes the first messenger who says that there’s only one God. This is the fundamental difference. Hinduism believes in many forms (roops) of god. God gives Ibrahim rules that people do not follow and they become slaves. This theme of rules being followed and broken appears repeatedly in the Bible.

  Jesus comes much later?

  These stories are said to be 3000 years old. Jesus arrived 2000 years ago.

  Tell us about the Christian concept of confession.

  It is believed that if you break rules in everyday life and confess in church, God will forgive you. But it is important that you accept your mistake. Confession is an important concept in the Catholic school. Protestants do not have this. There are no priests in their churches. A devotee forms a direct relationship with God.

  Tell us about the Mount Mary Church in Mumbai and the Velankanni Church in the south.

  The Velankanni story comes from the coastal regions which was under the Portuguese rule. Once, a cowherd, on his way to selling milk in the market, meets a woman with a baby. She asks him for milk for her baby. The boy gives her one, two, three bowls of milk. The milk does not get over. He goes to the market and tells the merchants there and wonders what it is. The Syrian Christians believe that the woman was Mother Mary. There they established a church of Mother Mary—Our Lady of Good Health. Like in some Hindu temples such as Tirupati where your hair is tonsured, at the Velankanni Church, people shave their heads as a sign of devotion. One wonders whether it’s Hindu or Christian. India is a country of faith. God in all forms is accepted here. This is our secular nature.

  I’ve read in many places that Jesus came to Kashmir. Is it true?

  There is a dargah in Kashmir where Jesus is said to have died. This is found in folk tales. Historians are not yet sure about this. Christians do not believe this. There isn’t much information or many stories about Jesus’s youth. There are stories about his birth and childhood and later years. Some people believe he might have been travelling—like a tirth yatra—to Arab countries, Persia, probably Kashmir too since it was famous for Sufis and rishis. Kashmir was called rishi bhoomi. Around 2000 years ago there were Buddha Vihara and Takshashila here, so it was quite likely that a person looking for god may have come eastward. There is no proof though.

  7

  Shabri

  In the Ramayana, we meet various devotees of Rama. Famous ones like Hanuman have temples of their own and are worshipped. Today we’ll meet another Rama devotee. I saw in our first season that Shabri offers Rama grapes. Wasn’t it supposed to be berries?

  This story of Shabri’s ber (berries) was first heard in the eighteenth century. If you see the various versions of the Ramayana, you’ll find that this story has undergone many changes since it was first written 2000 years ago. The Ramayana is not just a story; it’s a parampara. It has undergone many changes. In the earliest version, the Valmiki Ramayana, there is no mention of Shabri at all. When Rama goes in search of Sita, Jatayu tells him that she was taken south and that is all the information he has. On his way, he meets the headless Kabandha rakshasa who tells him that there’s a Pampa lake near the Rishimukh mountain where many rishis are waiting for him. He asks Rama to go to Rishi Matanga’s ashram there. By the time Rama reaches the ashram, he finds that Rishi Matanga has taken samadhi, and his maid Shabri is waiting for him. When he meets her, she touches his feet, welcomes him, gives him food and then enters the fire and takes samadhi herself. Rama then proceeds to Lanka.

  Does she give him berries?

  That has not been given importance. She probably gives him some kanda-muli (roots and shoots). It is important to note that in the Valmiki Ramayana Shabri’s story is about bhakti, dharma and seva (service). There is no mention of berries. Rama then proceeds south to Lanka.

  Are there other versions of the story?

  A folk tale in the Tamil Kamba Ramayana written 1000 years ago talks of seva. There’s no mention of what is served, berries or otherwise.

  Shabri is hesitant about meeting Rama because she is a lower-caste woman. But he urges her to meet him. She comes forward and welcomes him with flowers strewn in his path. She is very happy that he has honoured her with a visit to her hut. She offers him food. Here, there’s not much talk of dharma or seva. She’s just one of the people he meets on his journey to the south between Kadamba and Kishkinda. In the Telugu Ranganatha Ramayana, she offers different kinds of fruit to him. That is also not an important episode. She offers him food, which is a basic Indian custom, that of offering food and water to anyone who comes to your house because a guest is considered equivalent to god.

  When did the berries come into the story?

  They were probably first mentioned 500 years ago in an Odiya story—Balaram Das’s Dandi Ramayana. Dandi is a metre in music. Also, the road near the Jagannath Temple is called Boradandah (from verandah). Only Sanskrit, which was god’s language, was allowed inside the temples. Balaram Das’s Ramayana written in folk language was sung by people outside the Jagannath Temple, and is hence called the Dandi Ramayana. After it became famous and was allowed inside the temple, it was called Jagmohan Ramayana. Here, for the first time, food is given importance. Rama meets two hunting tribals, a man and a woman—Shabra and Shabruni—on his journey south. Shabri has been used here as a common noun, as a tribal person and tribal woman. She offers Rama and Lakshmana mangoes. Rama picks up a fruit that has teeth marks on it and Lakshmana picks one without. Rama says he finds the one with teeth marks very sweet and asks for those alone. This is the first time we see him eating something tasted by another. In Puri, there’s a Krishna temple associated with the Sabar people who are hunters. It is said that tribals used to worship at this temple which was later taken up by the Brahmins. Even today, a class of Brahmins called Daityas, who originate from the hunting community, worship here. Maybe that’s why when the Ramayana was written here, tribals were given importance and the Sabar story was elevated. In fact, they say if a Sabar were to offer an already tasted fruit to god in the temple, it would be accepted because they are a favourite of Jagannath. So this story was probably elevated because of the culture there 500 years ago.

  There are still no berries though.

  No. In Hindi literature, the story of Shabri offering berries to Rama appeared 300 years ago. She brings him half-eaten berries and when Lakshmana asks her about it, she tells them that she’s tasted them and brought only the sweet ones for Rama. Rama does eat them. There’s innocence and bhakti in her sentime